{R-2} Champion's Horizon(Route #26) (eiddim) [6/11/12]

[Saphira]

Song Name: Champion's Horizon
Artist: WillRock
Permissions: The song is under CC and we can use it being it's from OCRemix (Link here: http://missingno.ocremix.org/)

Stepcloud: Hard|Medium|Easy|Beginner

[eiddiM]

Bumping this because it's been rotting in the depths of the TS forums.

I'd also like to get to fixing the mistakes that I suspect are here.

[Nocturne]

Two weeks and no reviews, Blashphemy, I'm with my girlfriend now so...

Reserved for notes.

[Saphira]

I tried looking at it but was very unsure and felt uncomfortable trying to give notes for this one. I did let middie know this. AJ started the review but hasn't gotten around to finishing because the song is so long.

[eiddiM]

Yeah i just thought maybe bumping it to the front page might get one or more people to look at it as well :3

[kisler]

Okay, I took the challenge.

Champion's Horizon (eiddiM)

Offset: 2.110 (within 5 ms) - good

Beginner: (NPS: 1.33 < 2)
24.110 - what's up with this 4th stream? It doesn't seem to follow anything in particular in terms of pitch, and there's no percussion going on. I was expecting some kind of change at 26.110.
86.110 - given that this is an ascending/descending pattern, why do these two 1234s only ascend?
112.610 - shift down an 8th
113.610 - shift down a 12th
170.610 - shift down an 8th

Easy:
24.110 - same as beginner, I have no clue what's going on here.
45.610 - shift down an 8th
78.110 - this feels awfully familiar...oh wait, copypasta from beginner with more notes.
102.110 - this is an EXACT copypasta. ._.
112.610 - shift down an 8th
113.110 - shift down a 16th
113.610 - shift down a 12th (the actual note is a little before it)
148.360 - shift down a 16th
253.860 - what is this?
272.610 onward - Pikachu's cry isn't on regular 4th/8th here. You might have to use some 16ths, which are fitting anyway given Pikachu's color.

Medium:
17.777 - the 24th stream hasn't begun yet, so this 12th is out of place.
48.235 - shift this and the 8th below it each down a 16th
148.485 - expecting a 16th jump here rather than notes surrounding it
168.777 - again, 24ths haven't begun yet, so this 12th is out of place.
264.620 - too early on the Pi- syllable.
273.120 & 277.620 & 278.370 - also too early. But for the most part, Pikachu's much more accurate than the lower difficulties.

Hard:
36.797 - the second note of each remaining pair here occurs too early.
98.110 - er, the pattern is repetitive but the song isn't.
103.360 - this note is noticeably late, not sure about the others in this area.
113.610 & 115.610 - what are these for?
196.110 - this entire stream is 24ths, not 32nds. Artificial difficulty.
250.860 - maybe put 2 here? If you think the piano key is too quiet, by all means leave it out.
264.620 & 273.120 & 277.620 & 278.370 - see medium.

This is seriously like 10 minutes' worth of things to look at, so you're pretty close to acceptance. ^-^

[Halogen-]

(T) Technique - sim author's skills in pattern manipulation
(S) Sync - offset, BPM shifts, no misrhythms (obvious errors)
(I) Interpretation/Expression - creativity and imagination in translating the music, evoking meaningfulness in the file
(E) Engagement - fun, replayable and shows no signs of dragging the player along
(F) Flow - matching scales/chord progression, proper structure to the file, good transitions

Champion's Horizon (Middie)
-> sync is fine; beat 0 offset issue exists in this song

Hard: 2/1/1/3/2/(0) [9/15]
- 4.985: ghost note
- 18.922: freeze should be here (in other words, add the next note)
- if you're following guitar with mini-freezes, remove the freezes here: 25.235, 25.735, 26.360, 28.235, 30.360, 31.235, 31.735
- if you're following the guitar with mini-freezes, you're missing some here: 25.485, 25.610, 26.547, 27.547, 31.860, 34.110
- 34.610: the guitar actually speeds up here, starts as 24ths but turns into some really funky rhythm, play with it a bit
- 36.797/37.797: space out the second note a bit further, as is, it's too close to be accurate
- 41.922/42.422/42.922/43.422/46.922/47.422: ghost notes - most of the 32nds in the melody are either 3 or rarely, 5 notes long.
- remove freeze at 44.360
- 49.360: you have been following percussion indirectly the entire time, but there are missing notes for this and 49.486 (presumably intentional because of freezes being held, which I would understand if it wasn't for the fact that you had the player holding a freeze at 50.110, while following percussion)
- 52.360: should be four 24ths for the melody
- 54.360: four 24ths missing here for the melody
- 65.610: rhythm should be 12th notes here, regardless of you following the melody or percussion (four-note sequence: 65.610, 65.777, 65.943, 66.110)
- 79.860: this entire run should be straight 24th notes, from here all the way to 80.860 - leave the 32nd at 80.922 alone, as it is correct
- 85.860 to 94.110: these 24ths are awesome looking, they represent the melody very well on a visual level, which is awesome for the player.
- 104.110/104.610/105.360/(etc.): I understand that the freezes represent the sliding guitar, but having an even rhythm defeats the purpose of a slide, since it's typically very freeform and lacks a rhythm (think about sliding your finger down a guitar string, for example!). It's not a really big deal, but something to think about, haha.
- 110.110: should be three 24th notes in a row
- remove notes at 113.610 and 113.860, and add note at 113.735 to fix mis-rhythm
- 120.860/121.235: missing note for percussion
- 143.610: should be four 12th notes
- 149.110: very hard to distinguish, but there's at least four notes here, so use at least four 24th notes (or five 32nd notes would work as well)
- 165.235: seems like an accidental jump there
- 176.110: this huge stream should be 24ths
- 180.610: should be 24ths from here to the next beat (181.110)
- 182.360: 32nds are partially correct, but it's not one huge interrupted stream of notes
- 187.110: runningmen at 240 BPM 16ths? ouch.
- 196.110: should be 24ths
- 206.173/206.423/207.047/207.173: remove 32nds
- 208.235/210.485: missing note
- freeze should be at 224.485 instead of 224.610 (melody)
- 238.423: remove 32nd
- 240.360 should have a freeze for the guitar, remove the freeze at 240.610/240.860, add a freeze at 241.110
- 244.235/244.297: missing notes for drums
- 244.923: remove 32nd
- 245.235/245.485: add missing notes for guitar
- 247.610: should be 12ths, not 16ths
- 250.860: missing note - it's definitely soft, but still easily audible and will be awkward left omitted in an empty section like this
- the first "PI-KA" notes are at 264.735, and 264.943 - place the notes there and then shift them up or down a 1/192nd if you want to keep the white note effect (essentially, just being placed a bit more accurately). The second set is fine.
- in the third set ("PI-KA-PII"), the third note is way early. I placed it at 273.235 and it landed perfectly (again, shift up or down 1/192nd if you'd like it to stay as a white-note accent)
- the fourth set ("PI-pi---ka--CHUUU") is WAY off on the last three notes. The first note is fine, the others land at 277.485, 277,735, and 278.435 (shift if desired by 1/192nd for accenting purposes, etc)
- the last little scream is fine

holy crap that took a while. I'll get the rest later, lol D:

Medium: 2/2/3/3/3/(0) [13/15]
- with the 24th note melody starting at 17.860, the notes at 17.610/17.777 seem a bit off to me (added note: don't be afraid to substitute 16th runs where 24th runs exist on Hard because they will give a more complete/speedy flow in comparison to only 12th notes - the reason for this is that both 16ths and 24ths include 4th and 8th notes in their structure, but 12ths do not).
- 24.110 to 56.110: any errors in freeze rhythms/melodic rhythms that exist on Hard exist here too, as the Medium chart as an identical chart structure minus the added 16th streaming on Hard.
- 68.110: a 16th run to the melody will seem more noticeably correct than a 12th note run to accommodate for all of the bass drum rushing.
- 70.943: what's with this little poly-rhythm here, haha
- 86.110: again, a 16th note run could fit better here than 12th notes because it would capture the speed of the song more effectively; do what you did with the Hard chart - make the pitch relevancy visually correct and it will look that much better.
- 104.110/(etc): see Hard, as this is exactly the same
- 150.110 to 192.110: sweet looking section.
- any notes involving freeze arrows in the final melody on the Hard chart obviously apply to the Medium chart as well
- check rhythms on the PI-KA syllables, as well

This chart isn't half bad. A little bit of rhythmic tweaking and I'd certainly say it's good to go.

Easy: 2/3/2/2/3/(0) [12/15]
- 24.110 to 39.610: a bit overstepped for an area of the song that is toned down, no?
- add a note at 45.860 to accent the little 32nd note flourish in the melody there
- 56.110 to 64.110: again, an 8th note run doesn't seem very fitting. What about the lead guitar?
- 112.610/113.110: two notes are pretty off here - you can just push them down an 8th for simplicity's sake
- 148.360: this snare happens 1/16th later than you have represented (put a note at 148.485)
- you're also missing a note at 149.110
- 200.110 to 232.110: freeze usage gets a little confusing in here sometimes - try to follow only one instrument for this particular section with freezes, it could help make things a bit easier to understand
- pikachu cries are also offsync in this chart

A bit confusing with freeze usage near the end. One of the things that bothers me about this chart is the big difference in difficulty between itself and the difficulty above. It gets pretty monotonous sometimes.

Beginner: 2/3/2/3/2/(0) [12/15]
first tap: 2.110; last tap: 286.110; length: 284.000; taps: 379; NPS: 1.33

- within NPS threshold
- 24.110 to 39.110: try following the melody a bit more indirectly, only catching the more important notes (like 24.110, 24.610, and then 26.110, 26.610, 27.110, etc)
- 56.110 to 64.110: I also personally think that this could be simplified a bit more, not necessary though
- 102.110: direct copy-paste from Easy?
- to be honest, a lot of the rhythmic choices make sense, but the structure seems like it was either taken from Easy to use as a base, or used in Easy as a base, both of which aren't the greatest of things
- I'm a bit iffy with the excessive freeze usage, but it makes sense since most of it follows the guitar

[eiddiM]

So i've gone through and changed the chart(s) according to your notes.

Halogen when you find time, if you have it that is, to finish I'd like to see those other charts notes, or know you won't be posting them before I resubmit this (as we have that new resubmission cap, I'm trying to be weary of that and make less work for everyone reviewing this, as it's a 4+ minute monster and I understand the time it takes to review and such.)

Also a few little responses I'd like to post here:

@Kisler

Beginner: (NPS: 1.33 < 2)

24.110 - what's up with this 4th stream? It doesn't seem to follow anything in particular in terms of pitch, and there's no percussion going on. I was expecting some kind of change at 26.110.

The only note here I need to make is that, I think this is a more of a pattern error, as on the heavy and medium charts there more like "stary" or "dreamy" sound in the back is being stepped (On the heavy chart there's a bunch of hold notes and 16th notes if you recall, this is what these notes are attempting to emulate.)

Easy:

24.110 - same as beginner, I have no clue what's going on here.
See beginner for explination. <3

102.110 - this is an EXACT copypasta. ._.
Yes it is. While some of you dislike this, or it might even come off as lazy, the goal is to make each chart feel coherant with the two surrounding it or to slowly build up the patterns to what you're doing on the hardest difficulty. I promise I'm not trying to be lazy here.

253.860 - what is this?
That sir, is a bass note. Which shouldn't be there. I killed it with fire.

272.610 onward - Pikachu's cry isn't on regular 4th/8th here. You might have to use some 16ths, which are fitting anyway given Pikachu's color.
And type! Also fixed it. There's a few of them that look / sound fine where they where, but holy shit did I froget to check that. I also made it a point in all of the difficulties to remove the 192nd offset of the notes.

Hard:
103.360 - this note is noticeably late, not sure about the others in this area.
I think I fixed it, It looks / sounds correct at .2 rate now, but it looks weird still... Like really weird.

113.610 & 115.610 - what are these for?
Again, bass notes that I have no idea why I charted them. More fire killings.

196.110 - this entire stream is 24ths, not 32nds. Artificial difficulty.
I will now bash my head into my desk now.

Done.

250.860 - maybe put 2 here? If you think the piano key is too quiet, by all means leave it out.

After listening to it 3 times I finally heard that.

@ Halogen:

- 49.360: you have been following percussion indirectly the entire time, but there are missing notes for this and 49.486 (presumably intentional because of freezes being held, which I would understand if it wasn't for the fact that you had the player holding a freeze at 50.110, while following percussion.)

I fixed it... But I didn't want to cause a really stupid uneeded minijack so I took out the freeze on 2. I hope that this works, 'cause if not I'm gonna be mad as hell. Trying to de-gay that part.

- 85.860 to 94.110: these 24ths are awesome looking, they represent the melody very well on a visual level, which is awesome for the player.
I am sooooo bad at this section hilariously enough. Like, it's the intro to Epilogue all over again.

- 187.110: runningmen at 240 BPM 16ths? Ouch.
It flows for me pretty well but it's most certainly not my worst ever devised pattern at that BPM we can both recall... If you really desire it changed I'll do it, but I feel that pattern is what fits that section the best. Totally up to discuss this or mess with it ect.

Also what's the beat 0 offset mean o.o'

[yoshl]

for beat 0 offset, it's (kinda) similar to FFR's 2 second lag issue.
When an arrow is placed on the first beat of the song, it causes a jump in the song, because offset sync is done based on the first beat in ts. soo, add some extra silence, put beats before your first beat, and voila. beat 0 offset fix'd

[eiddiM]

How did I not remember that...

Thanks for that. Will fix that.

[eiddiM]

Sent in my resubmission one.

Medium:
When you suggested I substitute in 16ths I chose to do so, and I did it every time for the sake of consistency. I don't know if that is what you wanted, but it made sense to do it this way. I also added my own kind of slight deviation to your suggestion, but I cannot remember which.

On another note are you sure that this small runningman isn't to dickish?


Easy
Toned it down. And it seems kinda copy pasta on purpose. It makes more sense for me to do it this way to be honest. Mayne I just like it a little boring and simple.

Beginner
Toned down parts, I left the 2nd "dreamy" quarter note part alone because I for the life of me couldn't figure out a better way to go about it.

Also no matter how many times I tried to keep the offset the same after adding a whole extra second of silence for the sake of easy resyncing it wouldn't sync exactly the same. It's either synced better or slightly worse. Either way a heads up that it changed since last time and I feel I should note this.

[Saphira]

Resubmission posted.

[eiddiM]

Thank you much.

[Halogen-]

I made a mention of the 12th notes, but it wasn't a necessary change. If you like the way it came out after the change, then by all means, leave it that way.

[eiddiM]

You know how stubborn I am... If I didn't like it I wouldn't have done it.

[Halogen-]

(T) Technique - sim author's skills in pattern manipulation
(S) Sync - offset, BPM shifts, no misrhythms (obvious errors)
(I) Interpretation/Expression - creativity and imagination in translating the music, evoking meaningfulness in the file
(E) Engagement - fun, replayable and shows no signs of dragging the player along
(F) Flow - matching scales/chord progression, proper structure to the file, good transitions

{R} Champion's Horizon (Middie)
-> sync is fine; beat 0 offset issue still exists in this song - set your offset to -1.161 after reading notes in DDream and then move the steps down so that they correspond with where they originally belonged

Hard: 2/3/3/2/3/(0) [13/15]

- 4.985: ghost note
- 18.922: freeze should be here (in other words, add the next note)
- if you're following guitar with mini-freezes, remove the freezes here: 25.235, 25.735, 26.360, 28.235, 30.360, 31.235, 31.735
- if you're following the guitar with mini-freezes, you're missing some here: 25.485, 25.610, 26.547, 27.547, 31.860, 34.110
- 34.610: the guitar actually speeds up here, starts as 24ths but turns into some really funky rhythm, play with it a bit
- 36.797/37.797: space out the second note a bit further, as is, it's too close to be accurate
- 41.922/42.422/42.922/43.422/46.922/47.422: ghost notes - most of the 32nds in the melody are either 3 or rarely, 5 notes long.
- remove freeze at 44.360
- 49.360: you have been following percussion indirectly the entire time, but there are missing notes for this and 49.486 (presumably intentional because of freezes being held, which I would understand if it wasn't for the fact that you had the player holding a freeze at 50.110, while following percussion)
- 52.360: should be four 24ths for the melody
- 54.360: four 24ths missing here for the melody
- 65.610: rhythm should be 12th notes here, regardless of you following the melody or percussion (four-note sequence: 65.610, 65.777, 65.943, 66.110)
- 79.860: this entire run should be straight 24th notes, from here all the way to 80.860 - leave the 32nd at 80.922 alone, as it is correct
- 85.860 to 94.110: these 24ths are awesome looking, they represent the melody very well on a visual level, which is awesome for the player.
- 104.110/104.610/105.360/(etc.): I understand that the freezes represent the sliding guitar, but having an even rhythm defeats the purpose of a slide, since it's typically very freeform and lacks a rhythm (think about sliding your finger down a guitar string, for example!). It's not a really big deal, but something to think about, haha.
- 110.110: should be three 24th notes in a row
- remove notes at 113.610 and 113.860, and add note at 113.735 to fix mis-rhythm
- 120.860/121.235: missing note for percussion
- 143.610: should be four 12th notes
- 149.110: very hard to distinguish, but there's at least four notes here, so use at least four 24th notes (or five 32nd notes would work as well)
- 165.235: seems like an accidental jump there
- 176.110: this huge stream should be 24ths
- 180.610: should be 24ths from here to the next beat (181.110)
- 182.360: 32nds are partially correct, but it's not one huge interrupted stream of notes
- 187.110: runningmen at 240 BPM 16ths? ouch.
- 196.110: should be 24ths
- 206.173/206.423/207.047/207.173: remove 32nds
- 208.235/210.485: missing note
- freeze should be at 224.485 instead of 224.610 (melody)
- 238.423: remove 32nd
- 240.360 should have a freeze for the guitar, remove the freeze at 240.610/240.860, add a freeze at 241.110
- 244.235/244.297: missing notes for drums
- 244.923: remove 32nd
- 245.235/245.485: add missing notes for guitar
- 247.610: should be 12ths, not 16ths
- 250.860: missing note - it's definitely soft, but still easily audible and will be awkward left omitted in an empty section like this
- the first "PI-KA" notes are at 264.735, and 264.943 - place the notes there and then shift them up or down a 1/192nd if you want to keep the white note effect (essentially, just being placed a bit more accurately). The second set is fine.
- in the third set ("PI-KA-PII"), the third note is way early. I placed it at 273.235 and it landed perfectly (again, shift up or down 1/192nd if you'd like it to stay as a white-note accent)
- the fourth set ("PI-pi---ka--CHUUU") is WAY off on the last three notes. The first note is fine, the others land at 277.485, 277,735, and 278.435 (shift if desired by 1/192nd for accenting purposes, etc)
- the last little scream is fine

NEW NOTES:
- remove freeze (leave step there) at 227.406 and a freeze 227.531

Much better and a bit more clearly. Certainly one of your best files, as well.

---

Medium: 3/2/3/3/3/(0) [14/15]

- with the 24th note melody starting at 17.860, the notes at 17.610/17.777 seem a bit off to me (added note: don't be afraid to substitute 16th runs where 24th runs exist on Hard because they will give a more complete/speedy flow in comparison to only 12th notes - the reason for this is that both 16ths and 24ths include 4th and 8th notes in their structure, but 12ths do not).
- 24.110 to 56.110: any errors in freeze rhythms/melodic rhythms that exist on Hard exist here too, as the Medium chart as an identical chart structure minus the added 16th streaming on Hard.
- 68.110: a 16th run to the melody will seem more noticeably correct than a 12th note run to accommodate for all of the bass drum rushing.
- 70.943: what's with this little poly-rhythm here, haha
- 86.110: again, a 16th note run could fit better here than 12th notes because it would capture the speed of the song more effectively; do what you did with the Hard chart - make the pitch relevancy visually correct and it will look that much better.
- 104.110/(etc): see Hard, as this is exactly the same
- 150.110 to 192.110: sweet looking section.
- any notes involving freeze arrows in the final melody on the Hard chart obviously apply to the Medium chart as well
- check rhythms on the PI-KA syllables, as well

This chart isn't half bad. A little bit of rhythmic tweaking and I'd certainly say it's good to go.

NEW NOTES:
- 36.656: this are looks strange without any freezes seeing as how the guitar keeps going.
- remove freeze (leave step there) at 227.406 and a freeze 227.531
- 239.301: what is this freeze?
- 241.656: remove step, add freeze at 241.781 to capture the rhythm properly
- 278.666: note is a bit early for that cry

Was looking good before - it's looking even better now.

---

Easy: 3/3/3/2/3/(0) [14/15]

- 24.110 to 39.610: a bit overstepped for an area of the song that is toned down, no?
- add a note at 45.860 to accent the little 32nd note flourish in the melody there
- 56.110 to 64.110: again, an 8th note run doesn't seem very fitting. What about the lead guitar?
- 112.610/113.110: two notes are pretty off here - you can just push them down an 8th for simplicity's sake
- 148.360: this snare happens 1/16th later than you have represented (put a note at 148.485)
- you're also missing a note at 149.110
- 200.110 to 232.110: freeze usage gets a little confusing in here sometimes - try to follow only one instrument for this particular section with freezes, it could help make things a bit easier to understand
- pikachu cries are also offsync in this chart

A bit confusing with freeze usage near the end. One of the things that bothers me about this chart is the big difference in difficulty between itself and the difficulty above. It gets pretty monotonous sometimes.

NEW NOTES:
- 225.531: remove step at 225.656, and put freeze at 225.531
- 227.531: remove steps at 227.406, and 227.656, and put freeze at 227.531

Good work.

---

Beginner: 2/3/3/3/2/(0) [13/15]

first tap: 2.110; last tap: 286.110; length: 284.000; taps: 370; NPS: 1.30

- within NPS threshold
- 24.110 to 39.110: try following the melody a bit more indirectly, only catching the more important notes (like 24.110, 24.610, and then 26.110, 26.610, 27.110, etc)
- 56.110 to 64.110: I also personally think that this could be simplified a bit more, not necessary though
- 102.110: direct copy-paste from Easy?
- to be honest, a lot of the rhythmic choices make sense, but the structure seems like it was either taken from Easy to use as a base, or used in Easy as a base, both of which aren't the greatest of things
- I'm a bit iffy with the excessive freeze usage, but it makes sense since most of it follows the guitar

Slightly better. Fully accepted from me, but I suggest that you make the last few bits of changes I have for you before everything is finalized.

[eiddiM]

I will be doing those changes so please don't queue it till I do if it gets accepted again before then.

I want this chart as close to it's finest as I can get it. I also noticed via play testing like 5 times I might have missed a few 32nds near the end so I'm gonna be double checking that as well.

[Saphira]

I'll wait for your next resub before I judge it then.

[eiddiM]

Bumping

Everything is fixed and re-subbed. It just needs final glances to check for any last OMFG errors.

Appreciate the time everyone who's judged this (especially multiple times) put in to help me out. Just wanna see it make it to the queue
<3

[Saphira]

Yea sorry, keep meaning to get to it but I've had a hectic week. Just been judging on and what I can.


Edit: Gave it a run through, everything looks good to me. Nice job on this file. Full accepts here.